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Topic: TIP & Late Period (Read 27713 times)
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Cush
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Has anyone assembled a lineage or a timeline for the Dynasties 21 through 30 (Third Intermediate Period & Late Period, in NC of course) ?
I am having difficulties putting that all together.
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 02:35:58 AM by Cush »
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Bantu
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ARe there not charts for that all on the internet
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Cush
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Well, I could not find any accurate ones yet. 
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theelf29
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Looking at the dynastic dates given in "The Lost Testament," Rohl proposes the following: -
Manetho's 23rd Dynasty in the New Chronology
| 1. | Sehetepibenre Pedubast II (25 years) | 661 to 637 BC | | 2. | Osorkon V (9 years) | 637 to 629 BC | | 3. | Psammus (10 years) | 629 to 620 BC |
Thus it appears that Rohl sees this dynasty as entirely contemporary with Psamtik od the Saite 26th Dynasty, rising also during the reign of Tantamani of the Nubian 25th.
Rohl also gives the following dates for the ephemeral 24th Dynasty: -
| 1. | Shepsesre Tefnakht I (5 years) | 716 to 712 BC | | 2. | Wahkare Bakenranef (6 years) | 710 to 705 BC |
Rohl has Iuput I (who's in your 23rd Dynasty) as penultimate king of the 21st Dynasty (Tanite), reigning from 739 to 701 BC. Rudamon he places in the 21st Dynasty (Theban), reigning from 692 to 667 BC.
Hope this helps!
Graham John 
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theelf29
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Having had a further look at your Dynasty 23, I would suggest the following rearrangements (after Rohl, "The Lost Testament"): -
- Pedubastis 1 - this king seems to belong in the 21st Dynasty (Theban) as the seventh king, between Harsiese & Osorkon III. Rohl gives his dates as 753 to 729 BC.
- Iuput 1 - penultimate king of the Tanite branch of Dynasty 21. He is preceeded by Psusennes III and succeeded by Shoshenk VI. He reigned from 739 to 701.
- Osorkon 3 - successor of Pedubastis 1 (21st Theban), reigning from 720 to 692.
- Shoshenk 6 - successor of Iuput 1 (21st Tanite), from 700 to 644.
- Takelot 3 - reigned at Thebes alongside Osorkon 3 between 697 and 692.
- Rudamon - succeeds Osorkon 3 & Takelot 3 in Thebes. Dates are 692-667.
- Peftjauawybast - I may be wrong but I'm presuming that this is Rohl's "Pedubast II". If so, then he is the first king of Rohl's Manethoian 23rd Dynasty, reigning from 661 to 627.
- Iuput 2 appeas to be absent from Rohl's king lists.
Sorry I can't be more help on the chart front, but I hope this is of use to you.
Kind regards,
Graham John
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Cush
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Thanks a lot.
I am just trying to sort out your info and rearrange the kings.
So "The Lost Testament" does contain information that is not in the other books?
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Cush
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OK, I have altered the dates for the Third Intermediate Period:
| Third Intermediate Period | | TIP | 842 | - | 525 | | · 21st Dynasty Djanet | | Tanis | 842 | - | 644 | | · · Hedjkheperre Setepenre Nesbanebdjed Smendes | Smendes | | 842 | - | 817 | | · · Tjetkheperre Psusenes 1 | Psusenes 1 | | 817 | - | 769 | | · · Usermaatre Meryamun Setepenamun Amenemopet | Amenemopet | Amenemope, Amenophthis | 773 | - | 765 | | · · Neferkare Amenemnisu | Amenemnisu | | 769 | - | 766 | | · · Usimare Setepenamun Osorkon-sibast 2 | Osorkon 2 | | 765 | - | 760 | | · · Psusennes 2 | | | 765 | - | 752 | | · · Psuennes 3 | | | 752 | - | 739 | | · · Iuput 1 | | | 739 | - | 701 | | · · Shoshenk 6 | | | 701 | - | 644 | | · 21st Dynasty Waset | | Thebes | 823 | - | 658 | | · · Hemnetjertepyenamun Siamun Herihor | Herihor | | 823 | - | 813 | | · · Khakheperre Setepenamun Pinudjem 1 | Pinudjem 1 | | 813 | - | 788 | | · · Netjerkheperre Setepenamun Siamun | Siamun | | 788 | - | 769 | | · · Psusennes 2 | | | 769 | - | 765 | | · · Heqakheperre Setepenre Shoshenk 2 | Shoshenk 2 | | 765 | - | 762 | | · · Harsiese | | | 762 | - | 753 | | · · Usermaatre Setepenamun Peduabstis 1 | Peduabstis 1 | Pedibastet, Pedubasst, Petubastis | 753 | - | 729 | | · · Osorkon 3 | | | 720 | - | 692 | | · · Takelot 3 | | | 697 | - | 692 | | · · Rudamon | | | 692 | - | 667 | | · · Osorkon 4 | | | 667 | - | 658 | | · 22nd Dynasty | | | 823 | - | 701 | | · · Hedjkheperre Setepenre Shoshenk 1 | Shoshenk 1 | Sheshonq | 823 | - | 803 | | · · Sekhemkheperre Osorkon 1 | Osorkon 1 | | 803 | - | 789 | | · · Usermaatre Setepenre Takelot 1 | Takelot 1 | Taqelot | 789 | - | 784 | | · · Usermaatre Setepenamun Meryamun Osorkon 2 | Osorkon 2 | | 784 | - | 760 | | · · Hedjkheperre Setepenre Meryamun Takelot 2 | Takelot 2 | Taqelot | 760 | - | 735 | | · · Usermaatre Setepenre Shoshenk 3 | Shoshenk 3 | Sheshonq | 758 | - | 720 | | · · Usermaatre Meryamun Shoshenk 4 | Shoshenk 4 | Sheshonq | 719 | - | 711 | | · · Askheperre Shoshenk 5 | Shoshenk 5 | Sheshonq | 711 | - | 706 | | · · Pimay | | | 706 | - | 701 | | · 23rd Dynasty | | | 661 | - | 620 | | · · Neferkare Peftjauawybast | Peftjauawybast | | 661 | - | 637 | | · · Osorkon 5 | | | 637 | - | 629 | | · · Psammus | | | 629 | - | 620 | | · 24th Dynasty | | | 716 | - | 705 | | · · Shepsesre Tefnakht 1 | Tefnakht 1 | | 716 | - | 712 | | · · Wahkare Bakenranef | Bakenranef | | 710 | - | 705 | | · 25th Dynasty | | | 720 | - | 656 | | · · Piy | | | 720 | - | 690 | | · · Shabaka | | | 716 | - | 702 | | · · Shabitko | | Shabataka | 702 | - | 684 | | · · Taharqa | | | 690 | - | 664 | | · · Tanutamani | | | 664 | - | 656 | | · 26th Dynasty | | | 664 | - | 525 | | · · Psamtik 1 | | | 664 | - | 610 | | · · Nekau 2 | | Necho, Neko | 611 | - | 596 | | · · Psamtik 2 | | | 596 | - | 590 | | · · Apries | | | 589 | - | 570 | | · · Ahmose 2 | | | 570 | - | 526 | | · · Psamtik 3 | | | 526 | - | 525 |
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« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 09:37:11 PM by Cush »
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theelf29
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I found a list of dynasties in the New Chronology on page 455 of "The Lost Testament". I didn't manage to find my copy of "A Test of Time" - quite a lucky accident that I came across "TLT"! With hindsight, I'd regard the lists in "TLT" as abrogating any information from "AToT" as Rohl may well have revised his dates in the interim.
I've attached a list of the major dynasties in and around that period from those charts.
Dynasty 19
Ramsses I (962-961)
Seti I (961-943)
Ramsses II (943-877)
Merenptah (888-875)
Amenmesse (877-873)
Seti II (877-873)
Siptah (873-868)
Twosret (873-865)
Dynasty 20 (A)
Setnakht (865-859)
Ramsses IV-A (859-853)
Ramsses V (853-850)
Ramsses VI (850-844)
Ramsses VII (844-838)
Ramsses VIII (838-836)
Ramsses X (836-832)
Dynasty 20 (B)
Ramsses III (863-832)
Ramsses IV-B (832-830)
Dynasty 20 (C)
Ramsses IX (846-828)
Ramsses XI (828-801)
Dynasty 21 (Tanite)
Smendes (842-817)
Psusennes I (817-769)
Amenemopet (773-765)
Amenemnisu (769-766)
Osorkon II (765-760)
Psusennes II (765-752)
Psusennes III (752-739)
Iuput I (739-701)
Shoshenk VI (700-644)
Dynasty 21 (Thebes)
Herihor (823-813)
Pinudjem I (813-788)
Siamun (788-769)
Psusennes II (769-765)
Shoshenk II (765-762)
Harsiese (762-753)
Pedubast I (753-729)
Osorkon III (720-692)
Takelot III (697-692)
Rudamun (692-667)
Osorkon IV (667-658)
Dynasty 22
Shoshenk I (822-802)
Osorkon I (802-788)
Takelot I (788-784)
Osorkon II (784-760)
Takelot II (760-735)
Shoshenk III (758-720)
Shoshenk IV (719-711)
Shoshenk V (711-706)
Pimay (706-701)
Dynasty 23
Pedubast II (661-637)
Osorkon V (637-629)
Psammus (629-620)
Dynasty 24
Tefnakht (716-715)
Bakenranef (710-705)
Dynasty 25
Alara (769-750)
Kashta (750-721)
Piankhy (720-690)
Shabaka (706-695)
Shabataka (698-685)
Taharka (690-665)
Tantamani (664-657)
One may discount Alara and Kashta as this dynasty seems to have emerged largely during the reign of Piankhy.
I'll try to put something together on the High Priests of Amun at Thebes, who do overlap considerably with the 21st Dynasty. Suffice to say that that list is one of the reasons as to my scepticism of the Ethiopian king list during this period.
If there is anything else I could do to help you clarify the TIP, please feel free to give me a shout!
Kind regards,
Graham John
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Cush
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Oh wow, I am in your dept. 
I need to get my hands on TLT...
edit: what are your concerns about the Ethiopian king list? I agree that it is pretty unreliable and I had to make some corrections already and even dismiss most of the earlier parts.
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 11:22:39 AM by Cush »
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Cush
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OK, I have entered your data into my database, and created charts as well: click here
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theelf29
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I like the look of the new charts! I'm glad I've been able to help you iron out the difficulties of the TIP in the New Chronology. I'll clarify some of the details when I'm back home later this evening (for example, Rohl's Ramesisu 4a & 4b have different praenomens).
With regards to the Ethiopian King List, I shall be adding my two penneth worth under the relevant heading shortly.
Kind regards,
Graham John
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theelf29
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| · 26th Dynasty | | | 664 | - | 525 | | · · Psamtik 1 | | | 664 | - | 610 | | · · Nekau 2 | | Necho, Neko | 611 | - | 596 | | · · Psamtik 2 | | | 596 | - | 590 | | · · Apries | | | 589 | - | 570 | | · · Ahmose 2 | | | 570 | - | 526 | | · · Psamtik 3 | | | 526 | - | 525 |
Adding a few predecessors of the 26th Dynasty: -
| Ammeris the Nubian | | | Iribre (or Shepsesre) Tefnakht 2 (Stephinates) | c.686-678 | | Nekauba (Nechepsos) | 678-672 | | Menkheperre Nakau 1 (Necho 1) | 672-664 |
Psamtik 1 was, I believe (or else claimed to be), great-grandson of Wahkare Bakenranef of Dyn. 24. On the subject of Dyn. 24, there is also a king Padinemti who reigned at Asuyt in opposition to this dynasty.
Ammeris the Nubian is believed to have been a regent appointed by Shabaka after the execution of Bakenranef. Manetho gives him twelve years. Therefore, he could either be 705-694 (with Tefnakht 2 perhaps commencing earlier), 697-686, or any time in between.
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« Last Edit: September 10, 2007, 04:10:42 PM by theelf29 »
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