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Author Topic: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period  (Read 43662 times)
Cush
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #90 on: December 06, 2007, 11:12:22 PM »

Strange, in A Test of Time Rohl has conflicting charts on pages 340 and 411...
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theelf29
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #91 on: December 08, 2007, 02:18:00 AM »

What about those Wegaf/Sobekhotep inconsistencies? I tend to follow the following interpretation rather than Rohl's or Ryholt 's and put Wegaf at the start of the 13th Dynasty A.

Quote from: Phouka
Some egyptologits believe that Sobekhotep I was the founder of the 13th Dynasty -- having been switched with Wegaf. However, he is clearly noted as pharaoh number 19 in thr Turin list, but some believe that other evidence makes it ovcious that he was interchanged with Wegaf, who then ruled about 40 years later. Sobekhotep I is the first male pharaoh to adopt the crocodile god, Sobek, into his name.
His name is also present on about a dozen monuments, plus a few mentioned in papyrii.
It is assumed that he is the son of Amenemhet IV of the 12th Dynasty. The queen Sobkenefru may have been his mother (as well as his aunt, as was common).
Sobekhotep I was followed by a pharaoh named Reniseneb, which means "The Name is Healthy", but nothing else is know about this king.
Well, though one could argue (as, presumably, Ryhold does) that the 13th Dynasty was hardly short of Sobekhoteps, I believe you're correct and prudent in supporting the consensus reading. I haven't seen any evidence in Rohl to suggest he has changed his opinion since "The Lost Testament" and now concurs with Ryholt so we should go with Wegaf as first king on this one.

Strange, in A Test of Time Rohl has conflicting charts on pages 340 and 411...
Really? What's the contradiction? (Sorry, can't find my copy.... Huh)
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Cush
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #92 on: December 24, 2007, 09:38:05 PM »

Strange, in A Test of Time Rohl has conflicting charts on pages 340 and 411...
Really? What's the contradiction? (Sorry, can't find my copy.... Huh)
One has Sobekhotep 1 as first king, the other (later?) one has Wegaf as first king.
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theelf29
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2008, 07:52:58 PM »

Ah. Wegaf is the "regular" Egyptologist's bet for first king of D13, whereas Sobekhotep 1 is Kim Ryholt's choice.
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Cush
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2008, 01:51:26 PM »

Ah. Wegaf is the "regular" Egyptologist's bet for first king of D13, whereas Sobekhotep 1 is Kim Ryholt's choice.
Which seems out of place, as Sobekhotep became a popular pharaonic name only later in the dynasty.
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theelf29
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #95 on: March 18, 2008, 07:55:29 PM »

Ah. Wegaf is the "regular" Egyptologist's bet for first king of D13, whereas Sobekhotep 1 is Kim Ryholt's choice.
Which seems out of place, as Sobekhotep became a popular pharaonic name only later in the dynasty.

It does a little. Here's a comparison table of gaps between Sobekhoteps from the standard OC and Ryholt's redaction: -

NumbersOC (per narmer.pl)Ryholt
1-214 years (1738-1724)20 years (1800-1780)
2-310 years (1718-1708)28 years (1777-1749)
3-412 years (1705-1693)10 years (1742-1732)
4-50 years (1685)0 years (1720)
5-624 years (1680-1656)0 years (1717)
6-710 years (1654-1644)48 years (1712-1664)
7-8? years (only given dates for S 8 are Ryholt's)19 years(1664-1645)
Total70 years125 years
Average11.67 years17.86 years
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Cush
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #96 on: May 22, 2008, 03:23:50 PM »

Does Ryholt mention what source material he used?
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theelf29
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #97 on: June 22, 2008, 02:43:59 AM »

Sorry - I got his tables online. I've been planning to order his work on SIP, though (as you may have guessed) I've not really been concentrating on NC work of late.

Btw, thanks for drawing my attention to Rohl's latest spreadsheet. Very interesting synopsis of where his current thinking's at.
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Cush
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Re: SIP + pre + post, the Hyksos period
« Reply #98 on: June 22, 2008, 11:14:12 PM »

Sorry - I got his tables online. I've been planning to order his work on SIP, though (as you may have guessed) I've not really been concentrating on NC work of late.
We're in no hurry Smiley And I must admit I have been rather lazy myself for the last half year.

Btw, thanks for drawing my attention to Rohl's latest spreadsheet. Very interesting synopsis of where his current thinking's at.
I have imported all the data into a separate dataset, so I can evaluate the dates in the spreadsheet. I will see what updates I have to make in my "main" database.
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